| Sweep the Leg Johnny - May 2002 |
Steve: I think we've all considered this the last thing for a while if not forever. Some breathing room from the independent music world will do all of us good, especially me. I feel like I could answer that question a lot better in a few more months.
Chris: As of now, this is probably the last album but the touring will hopefully continue. How much? We'll see how this album does.
Why do you need a break from the independent music scene? Is it in a bad way, or have you just had too much of a good thing?
Steve: I think I soured quickly on how much red tape really exists in the independent world. When I got into playing punk shows, I really wanted to let hard work and writing speak for itself... and for a good while it did. I think we ran into a wall when we wanted a little more than our label wanted to provide... as far as people having a clue who we were outside of the countless basements and 20 person audiences. At the same time, I began working with a music publicist and I became incredibly disenchanted with writers and the power of indie press. To this day, I think taking that job was the worst thing I ever did. It was eye opening but quite painful.
I’ve heard that your future is dependent upon various factors, like work commitments, money, other projects – if this is so, when will you know the outcome?
Steve: Personally, I'm looking to see how the new CD/LP does on its own. Instead of playing 250 shows to support it, we are looking at 30-35. I think the record is so solid and a great tribute to where we are and how far we have come as a band. If the record does as well as we hope, I imagine that we will be able to rid ourselves of some serious debt and reconsider our level of commitment... at least as far as time constraints. We also have interests in other things. For instance, I'm looking to graduate school in elementary or special education and enjoying more time with my new family. Still, all things considered, I would love to still be writing with the vigour and tour with the commitment of the last seven years. Time will tell if our pocketbooks and bodies can take the abuse.
Chris: We haven’t known the outcome for 7 years; we haven’t known our future for 7 years. I guess some sort of common sense has finally caught up to us—unfortunately.
Do you genuinely think that Sweep has run its natural course?
Steve: If we never write another song, I can look back upon our four records and say that we never got worse. We always moved forward as students of music and writers. Our learning curve has been immense and the new record is definitely an apex.
Chris: It is hard to say when you are the one running. I don’t think there is ever a finish line to playing music.
Have you not got so much more to achieve, musically and commercially? Can you not push the boundaries even further?
Steve: Yes and yes and yes. Right now the boundaries are not as clear as they once were. The road has definitely blurred my vision of what I want to attain musically. Which is why I've decided to rest - to distance myself from the insane schedule. I'm already feeling healthier and inspired. I think Sweep was destined for little commercial success due to our lack of business sense piled on to our lack of music identity. We missed out on understanding the behind the scene issues and our music tended to ride fences of scenes. As far as being good-hearted guys and original musicians, I think we succeeded greatly.
Chris: The boundaries can always be pushed further, and I would love to continue doing it. I have never wanted to become commercially successful - it is not high on the list of my dreams - I just love to play music for people.
Aren’t your lack of business sense and the creating of music which “tended to ride fences of scenes”, which you seem to see as downsides to Sweep, actually really good things? You’ve forged an identity through a strict independent ideology, and played with both hardcore bands and bands like The Monsoon Bassoon, who make really delicate music. Is this not opening the eyes and minds of Sweep fans to new styles and ways of life?
Steve: I completely agree with what you are saying. We have played with hippie bands, hardcore bands... name it. I think my answer lied simply in the fact that I always wanted to have a chance to play to more people. We tend to do really well in front of large audiences and have been known to blow a few bands of the stage if they happened to not bring their "A game". We would have loved a chance to challenge "bigger" bands and their audiences for complacency. Still, there are a number of bands that could blow us out of the water and I would have loved to share the stage with them and learn a lesson or two about becoming better. In the end, it's about sharing energies. I enjoy the feeling of sharing that with other musicians.
And if you’d had that business acumen, and made music, which fitted nicely into a marketable niche, where do you think you’d be now?
Steve: On a pile of money with lots and lots of women.
Do you really think that you suffered from “a lack of musical identity”? For me, a Sweep song is very recognisable, and exists in a niche all its own – this, again, is surely a good thing?
Steve: Again, agreed. The best thing I can say for Sweep is that ‘Sweep is Sweep’. In the end, or maybe ten years from now, "Going Down Swingin'" will carry a lot of weight simply out of it's uniqueness; and if I had to decide between longevity and ‘quickie’ I'd have to choose the prior.
Is this the end of Sweep, or the beginning of another chapter in your collective and individual creative processes?
Steve: Again, time will tell. I've turned my creativity back home - to rebuilding my health and my foundation. I look to build from there, whether musically or not. I really feel like I have a lot of ideas and energy to offer the future of Sweep or any other project. It's getting exciting again and that more than anything is what I have needed for about a year or two now.
Chris: For me, I want it to be a new beginning - either with Sweep of with other musicians - or with medical school.
Do you have this musical vision of which Sweep is just one part, and Check Engine is another, that is yet to be fully realised?
Steve: I always want to be moving forward. Stagnation is death. I feel like I am still learning so much. For instance, my sax playing is still so unrealised despite its essence in the Sweep sound.
Are you happy with the new album?
Steve: So happy. I think it's a benchmark record for us. Chris and Mitch are so good together it's scary. John and Scottie are so tightly wound. It can be listened to on many levels... critically as musicians or if you just want to let your hair down and head-bang. Play it loudly and you'll understand that one.
Chris: Yes, very much so.
It’s an album that really throws you in at the deep-end, with this amazing 10-minute track – was that a deliberate gesture?
Steve: If you go back on all of our records, we seem to have a knack to put difficult songs first. It might be a subconscious filter or something. We seem to find ways to get rid of any casual listener very quickly. "Sometimes My Balls Feel Like Tits" may be our biggest challenge yet. Though it does rock hard immediately.
Do you feel that this new album, like Sto Cazzo, once again captures the ‘live’ prowess of the band, where previous albums haven’t?
Steve: This one is even more appealing than ‘Sto Cazzo!’ mainly because it comes AS IS. The studio tricks of ‘Sto Cazzo! - which were fun as hell because we recorded it in an apartment - are gone, and the band is heard for what it is... dynamic, fun, smart, rock.
Chris: It captures a different aspect of the live sound - we didn’t do a lot of overdubs or a lot of different instruments - just went in the studio and pounded the songs out in two days.
Does this album constitute another great progression, similar to the one you made with ‘Sto Cazzo’?
Steve: As I said above, it's our new apex.
It’s called ‘Going Down Swingin’ – is this how you feel?
Steve: I think the phrase is very definitive of how we feel with respect to the indie world. And we'll fight any one... I swear.
Chris: Yeah, I feel like if we are going to decide to stop playing, I want to go out with a strong showing – even if this is it, we put everything we have into this band, this album - always trying hard, never on our heels. We would rather go down swinging, than to just stand there dumbfounded…
In what conditions did you record this new album, having recorded ‘Sto Cazzo’ in John’s apartment?
Steve: At a nice little studio in Chicago called Uberstudio with Mike Lust. Pretty traditional set-up for a 3 day session. It was arduous, but ended better than I think we imagined with the time constraints surrounding a 51 minute release.
Chris: It was at Uberstudio in Chicago with the same engineer as ‘Sto Cazzo’. It had the same feeling – very comfortable.
You’re clearly in your element playing live, so have you had to learn to love the studio environment, or at least tolerate it?
Steve: Tolerate is a good word. We've gotten better each record realizing that the studio is our friend. It's taken a lot of time to understand what works well for our sound. Again, I think ‘Going Down Swingin'’ captures our comfort level.
Chris: I do not love the studio, it has always seemed like a sterile environment - I like to play in front of people in the studio, I feel somewhat like a robot - play the songs with no mistakes and mix it how you want it to sound. So I have had to find a compromise. I think I did with ‘Sto Cazzo’ and ‘Going Down Swingin’’. I try to have fun and not get sucked into thinking it has to be perfect.
Is the work ethic of constant touring and playing so many shows an important part of the band’s philosophy?
Steve: Always has been and always will. One of our biggest concerns with "slowing" down was that we would lose some of the identity we built as tour fanatics. I imagine that most Sweep friends understand that we can't see them 2 or 3 times a year anymore. We always felt that if we toured harder than anyone else and wrote good music that we could make ourselves into a huge band. That logic is obviously flawed, but the stories and friends we have made make up for any deficiency in fame and fortune.
Chris: Yes, it always has been - how else are people going to hear your music? We always did it ourselves, not wanting to depend on anyone else.
Do you think enough people are following your lead and trying to push the boundaries of their art?
Steve: That's up for people to decide on their own. I am tired of the critical world to be honest... listeners need to refocus their energies and make up their own minds again. As for music as art... the only reservations I have with music and music's future are best summed up by Billy Joel in "it's still rock and roll to me."
Chris: I am going to answer this with a short "no". If I explain myself, I might offend some people. If you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything is what I’ve learned.
Is the DIY ethic a dying art, or is it making a comeback as more and more people look for a true alternative to the packaged commercialism of modern music?
Steve: A majority of independent music is packaged and promoted with the same ethic as the majors. I am repulsed by any backstabbing that goes on in independent music and the scene that encompasses it.
Can you explain further how you feel about “the indie world”?
Steve: I feel like I'm repeating myself, but in essence I would just like to see the hierarchy and scenes destroyed. I would like shows to become diverse occasions to open minds and make new friends. Our greatest shows to this point have been sharing the stage with Red Monkey and watching them continue to write brilliantly and treat everyone around them with great respect and fairness. Our UK tour with them was inspiring. I would love to meet and play with The Ex… maybe build a show with Sweep, a great country band, some amazing underground hip hop, Bruce Springsteen, and The Ex.
Do you think that people are still too narrow-minded in their musical tastes, even in the so-called punk-rock underground, and don’t explore the amazing diversity that is out there?
Steve: I think kids need to drop security blankets of scenes and styles and trust themselves. Cross borders.
Chris: It’s hard because a lot of musicians in different genres think they are exploring new realms of music - they try too hard I think and they end up with attitude, not music. I’ve never said we are good musicians - we just go in the practice space and write songs that we like and that sound good to us. We aren’t trying to please anybody except ourselves.
Has Southern given you the ideal combination of distribution for your records and the independence to play where and when you want? Or would you have appreciated more tour support, etc.?
Steve: Depending on what side of the bed I wake up on, this question can be answered in different ways. I think Southern's intentions are beautiful as are the people that work there. I think they could simply take more risks and be more successful for their bands and themselves tenfold. I have no comment past that.
What has Steve learned about the human psyche from watching people at your shows with that famous stare of his?
Steve: I've learned that the wall between the performer and audience can be broken with a simple visual connection. It's intense and fun as hell.
‘You just got your asses whupped by a bunch of goddam nerds’ you ‘boasted’ on ‘Sto Cazzo’, but what is it that makes these particular nerds create such invigorating and challenging music?
Steve: Just watch the movie.
Did you agree with the description of ‘Tomorrow’ as a Jackson Pollock splatter session?
Steve: I took it as a great compliment from a critic that was particularly moved by the album.
Chris: I take it as a compliment I guess, but I don’t know what Jackson Pollock sounds like...
People have had so many wildly varying attempts at describing your band (like ‘the melding of Jesus Lizard and Ornette Coleman’), but do you see your own band in these descriptions?
Steve: No. Again, a great, great compliment, however, we just do what we do without attempting to fit any specific mould. I just feel that we have a very high quality editing process that ends in well-developed songwriting as well as songs that rock very very hard. I imagine that's where Ornette / Jesus lizard stems from. But to compare my sax playing to Ornette Coleman is an embarrassment to Mr. Coleman. I would imagine more people would see my playing more like a guitarists or as orchestrated, melodic attacks. I guess in that way I have a specific uniqueness.
Chris: Not so much. We play rock and that’s all...
I realise that few, if any, players can compare with Ornette at his peak, but do you not think that there is a comparison to be drawn in terms of innovation and of pushing the saxophone into hitherto unexplored dimensions?
Steve: Only in the fact that I am doing something that few have done. I am a collaborator and arranger in Sweep. If you put me next to any proficient saxophonist, I would be humbled. My strengths lie in finding my strengths and making Sweep songs special.
You previously talked about writing songs within songs, of this 30-minute piece with several distinct parts to the whole – have you brought these ideas to fruition yet?
Steve: Listen to "Sometimes My Balls Feel Like Tits" and "Rest Stop" on the new record and that vision will have come to some fruition... the entire album works extremely well together though, and I hate to break it up in that way. I think of the record as an entire linear performance. Let's call it a suite.
Despite all the complexities and contrasts of the music, it always flows so naturally – how do you find such a difficult balance between the two?
Steve: We are obsessed with fluid transitions. We will spend entire practices on 10 seconds of transition... if we are eventually stuck; we feel that is where a song should naturally finish.
Chris: Practice, practice, practice…
Did you set out to make music that was indefinable that sounds like no one else or has it just turned out that way simply by making the music that you wanted to make?
Steve: It really just happened and I'm lucky and happy to have played with friends that didn't stray when we sounded different. We feel like ourselves when we play these songs.
Chris: See above.
Do you think you’d have turned out the way you have as a band if you didn’t come from Chicago?
Steve: I think Chicago hampered more than helped. Yes, it's a quality scene, but it is very hierarchical.
Chris: Sure, I am from Portland, John is from San Diego. It doesn’t matter where you are from, write music you like...
Did you have an idea of how you wanted Sweep to sound when you first started, or when you began to get known? If so, do you think you realised it?
Steve: No preconceptions. Sweep is Sweep.
When you first started, did you think you would achieve all that you have?
Steve: The bar always keeps raising so sometimes it's difficult to look back seven years and think where my mind was. I always wanted to learn more and tour more. In that respect, I have accomplished (and the band as well) more than I imagined initially, but there is still so much left unfulfilled at this point. I would like to write new, greater songs, play to many more people than we even had, tour Asia, and pay an electric bill.
Chris: Not in the slightest - I am very happy with everything we have done. I have seen the world, written some rock songs, and met some of my closest friends with this band...
How successful do you feel that you’ve been? You’re still very much part of the underground, but commercially and artistically you’ve been really successful in many ways.
Steve: In the end, and in response to all of these questions: I have played music with my friends in a good rock band for seven plus years and travelled the world. I feel very successful. You see, I'm waking up on the other side of the bed now…
Have you achieved all you set out to?
Steve: No.
Chris: No, I want to go to Japan, New Zealand, and Australia.
You say that you’ve not achieved all that you set out to, and that “there is still so much left unfulfilled at this point” – can you elaborate on this?
Steve: Again, my playing needs great improvement, I need to continue to get better in the studio setting, and the bands I am in would to continue to share our music with more and more folks before I am using a walker.
What is your greatest achievement?
Steve: Trying.
Chris: Graduating from college.
What do you think / hope your legacy will be?
Steve: The black book (just kidding... see below). I think we will be remembered by the handful of people we performed for as a live force with intricate and passionate rock songs. More than anything, friends and beer pals to a lot of people worldwide.
Chris: The best drinkers in indie-rock.
How has Steve’s life changed since he got married?
Steve: The black book is gone.
Chris: Um... he's married.
Will you be playing a farewell US tour?
Steve: July 11-21 as of now. UK September... being booked as I write.
Chris: Yes in July.
What are your plans for the future, whether as Sweep or something else?
Steve: Eat well, play baseball, teach kids, rock and write, die.
Chris: Ummm... I don’t know yet. We will see what comes around...
Do you know what the other members of the band are going to do once you the tour ends?
Steve: Like me, work shitty jobs and drink shitty beer. And go to graduate school, which will probably encompass the same type of behaviour. Hmmmmm... what else...? Ah, Mitch and I are running Sickroom Records as well. Trying to find similar ethic in young bands. And so far, it's working. And the new Check Engine record that will be coming by the end of the year should be a blast.
Have you got anything else you want to add?
Steve: Are you implying that we are a math rock band? I will have to hurt you.
Chris: Bring it on…
Steve